Brooke Bullock (00:06)
Hello and welcome to the Interview Insider, the podcast that offers space to dig a little deeper into healthcare recruitment and helps you to perform when the pressure is on. I'd like to begin by acknowledging the traditional custodians on the land on which this podcast is recorded, and pay my respect to elders past, present, and emerging. I'm your host, Brooke Bullock, an interview coach, communication nerd, and lover of a recruitment analogy.
Brooke Bullock (00:32)
And for the last decade, I've been so fortunate to work with doctors, nurses, and allied health professionals to help them succeed in high-stakes interviews. Each episode, I'll speak with experts to unpack the real factors behind interview success. So if you're preparing for your next big opportunity and want to perform at your best, you are in the right place.
Brooke Bullock (00:58)
Welcome back to the interview Insider. Today I am joined by Isabel Crockett, a first-year medical student at Macquarie University in New South Wales.
Brooke Bullock (01:07)
Isabel came to medicine through an undergraduate degree in biomedical science, and she interviewed several times before she got into her dream degree studying medicine. Isabel and I worked together while she was preparing for that second round of interviews. So this is a conversation that I have been so looking forward to. We're going to talk about interviews, what Isabel felt was different that second time around, and any advice that she has for anyone who has just had a no or is preparing for their next.
Brooke Bullock (01:36)
Medical school interview. So, Isabel, welcome to the Interview Insider. Thank you so much for being with me today.
Isabel (01:43)
Hi Brooke. Thanks for having me.
Brooke Bullock (01:44)
you're welcome. Now, the first thing I need to ask you is can you take me back to the moment that you finally found out that you had an offer to study medicine? Where were you? What was the first thing that you did?
Isabel (01:57)
I mean, as it always goes, everyone knows a roundabout when they're gonna come out, but it's always a bit of a guessing game as to what exact time or if it's gonna be on that day or the next day. So I was at work and I was just constantly scrolling through all of the forums trying to figure out if it was gonna be that day, what time it was gonna be, and from the first year that I'd gotten the rejection email, I knew
Isabel (02:24)
what the subject line for the email was gonna be. And so I was sitting nervously waiting for it. And when I finally got the email come through, it was like a giant relief and weight off of my shoulders instantly. I remember seeing it come through, I opened it, I saw you've received an offer and I just was
Isabel (02:47)
so relieved that A, I wouldn't have to do any of that interview process again, any of the GASAT again. It's just
Brooke Bullock (02:55)
Yeah.
Isabel (02:57)
a giant like, finally all of the hard work has paid off and I finally get to do what I've always wanted to do. I think the first thing I did was I messaged my mum. She was with me through the whole thing.
Isabel (03:13)
start to finish and so as soon as I messaged her, the message really wasn't enough. She called me straight away and was in tears, She was just so proud. I think instantly she'd already sent a message to every family member we've ever had and every friend she's ever had as well and was just like, my gosh, I can't believe it. So excited. And so speaking to her about it, I think it really kicked in that it was real and it was happening.
Isabel (03:41)
And I just remember getting really, really excited and happy and as I s started getting all of the messages throughout the day from like friends and family, it really just set in that it had finally happened.
Brooke Bullock (03:54)
I can only imagine that moment being at work and receiving the email. And I know from getting to know you a little bit just how special of a mum that you have. So as if a text message was ever going to fly, that definitely needed to be a phone call. And I can
Isabel (04:06)
No, never.
Brooke Bullock (04:10)
imagine even, you know, the great auntie that you never knew you had was, celebrating you that day, as was I. Must have just been the
Isabel (04:13)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Brooke Bullock (04:17)
best feeling. And probably that mixture of relief, absolute excitement.
Isabel (04:21)
Exactly.
Brooke Bullock (04:21)
Excitement, also
Brooke Bullock (04:22)
probably a bit of exhaustion. No doubt you barely slept a wink the night before because you knew that the
Isabel (04:24)
Yes. Yeah.
Brooke Bullock (04:27)
offers were coming out.
Brooke Bullock (04:28)
it must have just been an unbelievable moment. And one that, I certainly know that you truly deserved. can you take us
Isabel (04:33)
Thank you.
Brooke Bullock (04:34)
back before this? Set set the scene about these interviews. And I think you're quite uniquely
Isabel (04:38)
Mm-hmm.
Brooke Bullock (04:38)
placed to share your experiences because you've actually had three different interviews at three different universities all to get into medical school. So do you mind talking us
Isabel (04:46)
Yeah.
Brooke Bullock (04:47)
through each of those experiences and and how that
Brooke Bullock (04:50)
how those interviews were for
Isabel (04:51)
I did the three different MMIs. So the first one I ever did was with University of Western Australia. That one was like an online MMI style interview. So it was different stations, different people at each station, and different questions, obviously different prompts.
Isabel (05:10)
And I remember it was all through an email, all of the different links were just there for you. So you'd click on one, it would take you into the station or the Zoom meeting and you'd get your prompt, you'd have about a minute or so reading time, and then you'd get thrown into someone who may give you a smile, may introduce themselves, or may give you absolutely nothing but a straight face and you've just gotta go with it and start going into your response to
Isabel (05:40)
the prompt or question that you were given. And then on top of that, you're then navigating all of the links that they'd given you. I remember being really, really nervous that I'd click on the wrong one or end up in the wrong room at the wrong time. And I was like, will my w Wi-Fi work? Will everything go according to plan? So that was I found that one really stressful, especially with it being my first ever interview. So I think
Isabel (06:05)
Anything you can do to sort of recreate that stress, I know it's hard to recreate the amount of stress you feel on the day, but anything you can do to make it a different situation or a different person that's speaking to you, practice with everyone you know. I think that's the best thing to do. I think that would have really, really helped me for that first interview. Definitely something that I didn't do enough of was practice with different people. yeah.
Brooke Bullock (06:31)
Yeah, it's a great point. I think
Brooke Bullock (06:32)
a couple of things I think about preparing for an interview such as that is practice with with as many people as you can on as many online platforms as you can. So even just
Isabel (06:41)
Mm-hmm.
Brooke Bullock (06:41)
navigating Zoom or Google Meets or Teams or the thousand
Isabel (06:45)
Yeah.
Brooke Bullock (06:46)
other different online platforms that all have different buttons in different places, it's really important to get a little bit more familiar with using different platforms and
Isabel (06:54)
Yeah.
Brooke Bullock (06:54)
remaining calm because the interview is stressful enough, let alone the tech being stressful on top.
Brooke Bullock (06:59)
of that
Brooke Bullock (07:00)
I think that this type of interview where you actually did have somebody in front of you but they not giving you enough back
Isabel (07:05)
Mm-hmm.
Brooke Bullock (07:06)
it's really not a two-way conversation and what I think is so tricky
Isabel (07:10)
Not at all.
Brooke Bullock (07:10)
in those interviews is building connection which is really what you want to do in the interview is build connection and share things about yourself your personality your skills your experience who you are your hobbies etc
Brooke Bullock (07:22)
Doing
Brooke Bullock (07:22)
that it becomes even more important when it's not a two-way conversation. So my advice is for interviews that are like that, but also for some medical school admission interviews where there literally is not a human, you you log into a room and you're on your own and it's a recording that just keeping in mind that a human will be watching that down the track. And so your job is to build connection
Isabel (07:45)
Yeah.
Brooke Bullock (07:46)
even though there's no one to connect to, but knowing somebody is listening at some point, whether live or later.
Brooke Bullock (07:52)
did
Brooke Bullock (07:52)
you find that was difficult to build connection in that first interview?
Isabel (07:55)
Yeah, definitely. 'Cause whilst it's a good thing to go from one to the next and you sort of get to wipe the slate clean so you don't have to worry about if you did bad in one you can wipe clean go to the next, that's a good thing. But it also means that they know absolutely nothing about you. Once again, you can't refer back to anything you've said before and if they're a robot or there's no one there, you've got no way of building a connection with someone. So it's really
Brooke Bullock (08:21)
Yeah.
Isabel (08:22)
hard
Isabel (08:23)
To not have a smiling face on the other side of it. And I found that, especially when I was practicing with you, that was one of the top things that helped me. Having someone on the other side just smiling at you, encouraging you, is one of the best things to build that confidence. And I remember sometimes in interviews, I'd be sitting there and I'd be like, just pretend it's Brooke. Just pretend she's there smiling at you.
Isabel (08:50)
And it'll be all good.
Brooke Bullock (08:53)
that is such a nice thing to hear. I feel like my eyes just went a bit teary when you said that. but yes,
Isabel (08:58)
Yeah.
Brooke Bullock (08:58)
pretend it's me or your mum or somebody encouraging you and nodding away. And
Isabel (09:01)
Exactly,
Brooke Bullock (09:03)
at the end of the day, even though these interview environments are so sterile, and the one that we've been talking about so far, perhaps the most sterile of all, there are people on the panel who
Brooke Bullock (09:12)
really do want to understand what you've got to offer, they understand how nerve-wracking it is, and panels generally want you to do a good job. They want you to do a good job and they want to learn about you so they can pick the best people to get into medical school. So,
Brooke Bullock (09:24)
I understand the second interview was more of a traditional interview is that right?
Isabel (09:28)
Yeah, so the second one was with Flinders. That was in my second round of applications. And so that one was a panel. They were three people sitting at a desk via Zoom still. So it was sort of just the camera was set on them, camera was set on me, and you just kept going with each of the questions as they asked them to you. But in the same line of thought as we were saying before, it's so much better because it's the same people.
Isabel (09:57)
the whole way through. And so they can ask extra questions, they can input things and it feels a lot more like a conversation. And you get to build that connection and rapport with those people. So whilst it's a bit nerve wracking that if you mess up or you say something wrong that they're still there, they also know that you're a human as well
Isabel (10:19)
I enjoyed that interview a lot more I enjoyed it being a panel interview and having the same people there.
Brooke Bullock (10:25)
That's such great insight into those two different types of interviews. then tell me about your third interview. What was the interview like in Macquarie?
Isabel (10:32)
Yeah, so Macquarie was an in person interview which just so, so different from the other ones that which were online. You actually got to see people, they could react to things that you were saying and
Isabel (10:45)
found that one was really, really good. I remember before we even went into the interview, they had us all in a waiting room and so we got to speak to all of the other candidates, And so just getting to actually see other people who are just as stressed as you are, I think that
Isabel (11:01)
also added to it because that sort of helped me. I was like, okay, there's other people who are just as stressed in the same exact situation. And then from that holding room they took us in and we went around the circuit and you went physically into a room. Then once you walked out, you waited in front of the next room. And I think that physical movement helped you refresh and go into the next station ready. But it also gave you
Isabel (11:29)
that moment to walk out and go, Right, I've done one, I can go to the next. And because it was in person and so physical, it was almost like you could see the end of it. Whereas with the other ones, it all becomes a bit of a blur when you're in there. I remember people asked me at the end of them like,
Isabel (11:46)
What did you think about it? How was this specific station? And I'm like, I don't really know. It's a bit of a blur. but that physical movement from each of them and being able to see which room you were going to next and how many you had left, I found that really good for me. I know everyone's
Brooke Bullock (12:03)
Yeah.
Isabel (12:04)
different, but that helped me.
Brooke Bullock (12:05)
my personal opinion is there is nothing like meeting somebody in person, even as a panel member. So
Brooke Bullock (12:10)
It resonates with me when you say you felt like you were able to connect and almost be yourself or show a little bit more of yourself through those interviews. But what a
Isabel (12:16)
Definitely.
Brooke Bullock (12:17)
unique experience you've had having the online MMI with no interaction interview, the kind of traditional
Isabel (12:22)
Mm-hmm.
Brooke Bullock (12:23)
two-way conversation interview, but fairly scripted in what they were asking you, and then this in-person one where you're moving between rooms.
Brooke Bullock (12:31)
It's so interesting to hear your different experience between the three interviews, but I guess also between the three interviews, your interview skills are improving. You're changing as a person. These interviews were, 12 months apart. So
Isabel (12:43)
Yeah.
Brooke Bullock (12:44)
where did you go wrong in the interviews that where you didn't get on? and
Brooke Bullock (12:47)
part B of the question is where did do you think you went right in that final interview with Macquarie?
Isabel (12:52)
Yeah, so I remember after finding out that I hadn't gotten in the first time, I think the whole time leading up to that email coming out, I was like really, really hesitant to think back about what actually went wrong. But after I got that email it was sort of like, Okay, no, I actually have to look back on it and reflect and figure out what went right, what went wrong. And I think that was one of the hardest parts. I remember
Isabel (13:20)
I was preparing for that first lot of interviews, I did a lot of practice through videos just of myself that I would look back at. I did a little bit of practice with other people and getting feedback, but a fair bit of it was trying to do it myself. A little bit in terms of cost. I was trying to keep the cost down and do a lot of it myself, which I know is a big thing for a lot of people.
Brooke Bullock (13:41)
Of course. Of course.
Isabel (13:45)
so doing that, I found it helpful because I could see myself and I could pick out little bits, but I also felt that I was only picking out the bad bits. I really, really wasn't giving myself any confidence moving forward. I wasn't finding bits that were like, That's what I'm doing right. I need to keep doing that. And so I think through watching myself a lot, helped in some ways, but continuing to do it sort of
Isabel (14:12)
pulled my confidence down because I really wasn't getting the leg up to be like, yeah, there's something I'm doing right. And I found that very, very different for the second round, where I did a lot of practice with real life people who would
Isabel (14:28)
tell me what I was doing right, especially with you, Brooke. You were very, very encouraging with a lot of things. And so having that confidence that was built up the second time.
Isabel (14:40)
definitely helped me so so much and just although I wasn't coming into it going, I'm the best person for this, I'm the best candidate,
Brooke Bullock (14:50)
Yeah.
Isabel (14:51)
I have the best answers, I had the confidence knowing that there was some things that I was doing right and I could focus on the things that I was confident in myself with. I knew that my delivery was good.
Isabel (15:06)
And so I really tried to lean back on that and use that to my advantage. I also feel like one of the big things that I changed from the first time to the second time was structure. I think structure
Brooke Bullock (15:19)
Yeah.
Isabel (15:20)
was definitely a massive, massive thing. And the first time I think I used it more so as a rigid like structure. So I would really, really stay in it and be like,
Isabel (15:35)
That has to be how it goes. I have to use that structure. And then when I would get a question that didn't fit that, I was stuck. I was sort of trying to push my answer to
Brooke Bullock (15:44)
Yeah.
Isabel (15:45)
fit it. And although a structure is good because it allows you to lean back on things, you shouldn't let it rule your answer It should be something that guides you
Isabel (15:58)
And I definitely changed that the second time. I looked high and low for different structures that would work best for me. I tried everything out there. the ones I ended up sticking to the most were yours, Brooke, just because
Brooke Bullock (16:13)
Yeah.
Isabel (16:15)
they really resonated with me and I found them easy to use and easy to remember. And
Isabel (16:20)
I think that's the best thing because when you're thinking too hard about the structure, then you're forgetting where you're actually going in your answer. So I think the best thing to do is to find a structure that works for you. And each person is gonna be different. So don't go out there
Brooke Bullock (16:37)
That's right.
Isabel (16:38)
and go, I need to use this structure. If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. And I think sometimes in the first round of applications I would
Isabel (16:48)
be using a structure and I would get a bit lost and then get so stuck in the fact that I had to be using that structure that it would all just fall apart. Whereas the second time around I really used the structure as a framework and a guide rather than everything has to fit within this. So if I came off of the structure or the quote unquote script a little bit.
Isabel (17:15)
it didn't matter to me as much because it just it felt a lot more natural because I wasn't forcing myself to fit the structure. I was using the structure to fit me, I guess.
Brooke Bullock (17:28)
Isabel, there's the title of the podcast episode.
Brooke Bullock (17:30)
rich and beautiful reflections from you, Isabel. I'm nodding and smiling at you right now, just like, my goodness,
Isabel (17:36)
Mm-hmm.
Brooke Bullock (17:37)
I watched you go through this journey. And I wanna pull out two key things, which I wholeheartedly believe as an interview coach. And I mean I've been doing this for over a decade and have worked with so many brilliant applicants for medical school. But I think one thing is that confidence, you do have to go in confident and you've gotta
Brooke Bullock (17:53)
Know what you've got to offer and trust that what you've got to offer is enough. And part of that is what you've got to offer is already enough. You've got an interview, you've passed that hurdle of has this person
Isabel (18:07)
Exactly.
Brooke Bullock (18:07)
got enough skills experience, things on their CV to get into medical school? The answer is already yes. So what you're doing in interview is explaining that, expanding, showing them who you are, and knowing what you've got to offer, what are your unique cards in your pocket.
Brooke Bullock (18:22)
And I'm still using my card analogy, Isabelle. I will never give it up. But everyone has this unique set of cards in
Isabel (18:27)
Love
Brooke Bullock (18:27)
your pocket. And helping you own what those cards are and show you how to get them on the table is what I is my favorite thing to do with people. But I think part of that, as you said, is
Brooke Bullock (18:36)
People reflecting being a mirror back at you and telling you what you're doing well, because if you just focus on what you're not doing well in your prep, all of a sudden the things that you are doing well that are really hitting home or that are really memorable, my favorite part of your answers, that stuff just disappears because you don't even know it's good. You're too busy focusing on the dents and the things you want to fix.
Isabel (18:55)
Exactly.
Brooke Bullock (18:56)
But I think the second thing about structure and, you know, as an interview coach, a lot of people will come to me or have conversations with me and say, Well, if you were just gonna teach me frameworks, and they don't usually talk like this by the way, but you know, aren't I gonna
Brooke Bullock (19:06)
Sound like everyone else, then my point is like, the frameworks and the techniques are the starting point. The advanced prep is then moving those cognitive aids out of the front of your face, away from you, behind your head, so that they are there to help you. But we really need to build that flexibility because lots of common questions that are asked in medical school interviews, but we could never predict what you're going to be asked. So building that flexibility and really showing who you are.
Brooke Bullock (19:33)
and what you've got to offer are more important than any clunky framework that you can find on Google. I do use some
Brooke Bullock (19:39)
common frameworks and I certainly modify them, which is I think what you're referring to, but you made them your own through your prep, Isabel. And I think that's that's the secret source that gets people into medical school.
Brooke Bullock (19:49)
Okay, I want to delve you to delve a little bit deeper for me into what your prep actually looked like. So I know what what you did with me, which was you worked through the early stages of what is now my masterclass for medical school interviews, and we worked one-on-one together. But I know I was just one piece of your puzzle, which I'm always proud to be. But what else did you do? How early did you start with your prep? Who else did you practice with? And what do you think, really worked for you in the lead up to this successful interview?
Isabel (20:16)
Yeah, so I was practicing for quite a while. I was practicing even before interview offers came out and not because I was so confident that I would get an interview offer, because it's different every year. I knew that speaking and doing things
Isabel (20:45)
really, really quickly on the off the top of my head responding to prompts and questions wasn't my strong suit and given the fact that I didn't get the offer based off the first interview, I really, really wanted to dedicate enough time to it. And so I started quite early with my interview prep. And so I used you, obviously, and I used a few other people that I knew that were already in medical school. So they were just
Isabel (21:14)
offering their help to me And I think having both your perspective from behind the scenes of the interview and what those panelists and people interviewing you are thinking, but also knowing from the people who have been in my shoes or the people that will be in my shoes that have done the interview know what it's like. So having both of those perspectives, I think that really helped me within my preparation. But
Isabel (21:39)
not only people who had done it, I tried to make sure that I used everyone around me. I used my friends. I used my family. I think once you can explain a really, really difficult topic to your friend who's sitting there trying not to laugh at you, you can get through pretty much any situation. And also I was working at a GP clinic at the time and I would often try and just have
Isabel (22:04)
conversations with the GPs and also some specialists that would come in from time to time. Obviously not directly about my medical interviews because I'm sure that wouldn't be of interest to them. But just to get a general idea of like what they do in their day to day, I guess. Just to get a bit more of an understanding of what the career is like that I'm actually applying for. Because I know coming into it I didn't have a lot of experience
Isabel (22:33)
within the field. And so that was one of the things that I really wanted to work on and make sure that I used everyone around me to get to know.
Brooke Bullock (22:42)
I think you've made two really good points here. And one is about the timeline. I would almost say that if you're starting to prepare for your interview after you get notification of your interview, you're starting behind the eight, or you're starting too late. And a lot of people who do this,
Brooke Bullock (22:57)
They're really racing to the finish line, trying to get as much prep underway. And all of them are saying, I wish I started this earlier. So I think take Isabel's advice and start early before you've got your interview, even knowing that that can be demotivating. As we often we're really trying to have a bit of self-protection in not wasting time preparing when we don't know we have an interview. But then when we get the interview, it's too late. So I really, really wanna advocate for that early start.
Brooke Bullock (23:22)
Secondly, you just did such a great job to work with so many different people. And you're right, some of the people who are closest to you, your good friends or your mum and dad's, best friend who
Isabel (23:31)
Mm-hmm.
Brooke Bullock (23:31)
happens to be a teacher or a lawyer or an engineer or some
Isabel (23:34)
Yeah.
Brooke Bullock (23:34)
other profession, they're sometimes the best people to get a different perspective as well. So I would say don't be shy, reach out to people, ask them. I don't know any friend or family member of mine who wouldn't say yes to me if I said, Can I have an hour of your time? and I'll
Brooke Bullock (23:51)
I'll buy the coffee or I'll give I'll buy you the beer. But I think that is just
Isabel (23:54)
Exactly.
Brooke Bullock (23:55)
such a useful way to get different perspectives as you go in to your prep. So you came in through biomedical sciences and you'd done a biomedical science degree rather than coming to medicine straight from high school, which is probably two of the more traditional paths. Can you talk about how that shaped what you had to talk about in your interview? Did you talk about your biomedical science experience a lot through your interview?
Isabel (24:19)
Yeah, so I would say the Biomed gave me like the strong science foundation and I think it helped me understand why I wanted to pursue medicine and I could use that in my interview to be like, I've explored medicine, I know the theory behind it and I still know that I want to pursue it. But I also know that most other people applying have done
Isabel (24:49)
a similar if not exactly the same degree. So whilst it was part of my answer for why I wanted to pursue pursue medicine, even though that didn't come up every time, it wasn't I think the strongest example that I used a lot of the time in my interviews. I think a lot of the time it was the experiences that I had from alongside my degree. So like working as a maths tutor or
Isabel (25:19)
Being a medical receptionist in a cardiology practice or the GP practice. I think a lot of those really, really contributed to the experiences that I was using in those interviews. Cause I wanted to make sure that what I was putting forward in the interview was something that would differentiate me from everyone else. So whilst it was really important that I had done that degree, not that anyone that hasn't done it will be any less or any more. I know people doing my degree now that
Isabel (25:48)
come from an arts background. Anyone can do it, but I think the biomed degree helped, but all of those other experiences that I had alongside it were really what set me apart from other people and I think that was the most important part of my interview.
Brooke Bullock (26:06)
That's a great reflection also. And I know I talk about these cards in your pocket, which we referred to earlier, that everyone's got
Isabel (26:11)
Mm-hmm.
Brooke Bullock (26:12)
this unique set of
Brooke Bullock (26:13)
cards in their pocket that we want to get on the table in the interview. And it's almost like your biomed degree is like a really solid card, but it's not shiny. It's a solid card
Isabel (26:21)
Yeah. No.
Brooke Bullock (26:23)
that makes you who you are, but the shiny stuff is the stuff that differentiates you from other people. And so for people who are preparing for their interview, regardless of whether you are just finishing high school, whether you've done an undergraduate degree in science or arts, there's so many different backgrounds of people
Brooke Bullock (26:40)
That apply for and as you just said, get into medicine. But each of those people need to understand what their cards are, what their boring cards are, and what their shiny cards are that really set them apart. And I think, medicine needs all of those different types of people. We've got a wide range of range of people who are
Brooke Bullock (26:58)
Doctors, and that's really important for the very wide variety of people that they care for and treat. So keeping in mind that just because you don't look like the next person who's applying, it doesn't mean you don't have your own shiny, glittery set of cards in your pocket to whip out. Is that what you have seen now that you're on the other side in medical school, Isabel?
Isabel (27:18)
Yeah. Every different person has so many different things about them that make them them. And you can tell the people that are on the other side of it that have done the interviews, they've all used their cards and the shiny ones at that.
Brooke Bullock (27:33)
Yeah.
Isabel (27:34)
They've pulled them out when it mattered most in those interviews and that's what got them to where they are.
Brooke Bullock (27:41)
Brilliant. So is there anything that you would have done differently had if you had to do it all all over again?
Isabel (27:48)
I think well, obviously if I were to do the first round again, I would do everything that I did
Brooke Bullock (27:55)
huh.
Isabel (27:55)
the second time, but I'd do that the first time. So I would really want to make
Brooke Bullock (27:59)
Yeah.
Isabel (28:00)
sure that I'm spending I was spending way too much time trying to make the perfect answer for every question, which in hindsight was good because you do want a perfect answer, but when you're thinking on the spot and you've only got
Isabel (28:18)
a few seconds to think and in those few seconds that you're thinking there's someone staring at you waiting for you to say something, you don't have the time to make your perfect answer then fit the mold of the question they're asking you. You need to make sure that you've got that solid framework in the back of your head, not at the front of your mind blocking everything else. You want it at the back of your mind guiding you through each thing so you can
Isabel (28:46)
mould your experiences to each different question and have it be individualized to you, not just to have the perfect questi the perfect question come up that makes your answer seem amazing. So I think I would spend less time trying to memorize answers and just blurt them back out again. And I would spend more time trying to make sure that I had
Isabel (29:16)
good reflection of experiences that I'd had in my life and I was able to mould those to each question that was given to me. I also think I would obviously work with way more people than I did the first time. Second time I definitely made the most of it and tried to work with everyone, but first time, as I was saying earlier, really just sort of worked with a few different people and then a lot of by myself, but
Isabel (29:45)
really expanding and working with as many people as you can is one of the best things that you can do.
Brooke Bullock (29:54)
Yeah, great reflections. And I mean, you just absolutely nailed it that second time around. So there's so much to learn between those experiences. But each of those experiences,
Isabel (30:02)
Mm-hmm.
Brooke Bullock (30:03)
and I'd really encourage people who've had you know, had a rejection from a medical school application before, that there's a lot to learn and it and it is t about looking after yourself, but also when you're ready following having a bit of a pause and and licking your wounds a little bit, just reflecting
Isabel (30:17)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Brooke Bullock (30:20)
back like you did and then leaning into those reflections. And I think that's one of the strongest things that you
Brooke Bullock (30:24)
Did in your prep reflecting back and then you know bouncing forward in leaps and bounds as you did. Now I do have maybe just one or two questions left to ask you, Isabel, but something that I feel I have to ask you because it is perhaps the funniest referral story I've ever had.
Isabel (30:41)
Yeah.
Brooke Bullock (30:41)
is can you tell me about how you heard about my services?
Isabel (30:47)
Yeah, so I was being wheeled in for surgery to get my I think I was getting
Brooke Bullock (30:53)
Yeah.
Isabel (30:53)
my tonsils out at the time. And I was being
Brooke Bullock (30:57)
Yeah.
Isabel (30:57)
wheeled in, I was speaking to the anesthesiologist and just telling her about what I
Brooke Bullock (31:03)
Mm.
Isabel (31:03)
was up to. And I was saying, I'm applying for med school and she goes, Well, I know the perfect person you need to speak to. And she gave me your name and I'm
Isabel (31:14)
Pulled out my phone, wrote it down in my notes app. I said, There is no way I'm forgetting this. Wrote it down in my notes app before I was taken into surgery. Gave them my phone after that and said, I need that back after this. I've got important information on there. And basically as soon as I got
Brooke Bullock (31:30)
Mm-hmm.
Isabel (31:32)
out after surgery, I was Googling you up and rest is history.
Brooke Bullock (31:40)
I just love it so much. And I think you know, what a referral method if I'm ever struggling with my business is I could just give some anethetists the my business card and to get them to slip it into, you know, people's surgical gowns as they're being wheeled in for surgery. But I'm so glad that that opportunistic conversation happened and that I got to meet you following you your recovery post tonsilectomy, by the way. Now
Isabel (32:02)
Yes.
Brooke Bullock (32:05)
A couple of final things. So you very generously, when you thought you'd got rid of me, you'd got into medical school and you thought you'd seen the back of me, I then asked you if you would be happy to be in some video content in my now medical school interview preparation masterclass, which was the early, you know, is now the solid version of the early thing that you worked through yourself. Do you remember that? Like what was it like being on the other side of the camera watching yourself answer questions and knowing that these videos were gonna going to be sent out into the universe?
Isabel (32:33)
I mean, I think to start with, my brain was like, my gosh, this is gonna be a little bit weird. Like when you first asked me to do it, obviously, I was like, am I gonna be able to do it? Am I gonna be thinking about it the whole time? But as soon as I got into record with you, I just was like, this is an opportunity to practice and better myself. And as as soon as I started talking and your smiling face was there and you were nodding at me and going, You're doing amazing.
Brooke Bullock (33:00)
Yeah.
Isabel (33:01)
it
Isabel (33:01)
all just went away and I was like, this is just another opportunity to practice and it didn't feel like anything different to what it was before.
Brooke Bullock (33:12)
and I'm just so grateful that you did that with me and the videos are so helpful and I often have comments about how great it was for people who are prepping for their interviews now to watch you back, a real life person
Isabel (33:22)
Okay.
Brooke Bullock (33:22)
who got into medical school and see really demonstrating how yes there's frameworks and techniques and
Brooke Bullock (33:29)
all of these things that we do in their prep, but at the end of the day the most important thing is that you come across as yourself as we've been talking about today. So yeah, I'm just so grateful. and you know, maybe I'll continue to use those videos of you until you're old and grey and a doctor and then you'll have to film some more with me for my doctor master class. but I guess Isabella
Isabel (33:46)
I hope so.
Brooke Bullock (33:48)
final quest. Yeah, I hope so. I love
Brooke Bullock (33:52)
I'm now at an age in my business where I've worked with people who've got into medical school and now those people are getting onto specialist training programs and coming out the other end of them. So that certainly makes me feel old, but is just the biggest privilege
Isabel (33:58)
Yeah. No.
Brooke Bullock (34:03)
of of my business. So a final question before I let you go. and I do ask this of everyone on the podcast that if there's one piece of advice that you could give to somebody who is preparing for a medical school interview, what would it be?
Isabel (34:20)
I think I mean there's there's so so many things but maybe two things. I think start early. There is such a broad range of things that you need to know. Even just the knowledge base that I remember needing for those interviews. If you asked me to do those interviews right now, it wouldn't be the same because there's there's so much knowledge that you need going into it. There's so much
Isabel (34:49)
understanding of the world around you that you need that I have now because I've done all of that, but getting into it early and giving yourself the opportunity to digest that knowledge and have that be at the back of your mind rather than the forefront so you can focus on your experiences and using them to answer questions about that.
Isabel (35:10)
base is really really important. So I think starting early and using what's around you, using prep courses, watch YouTube videos, listen to podcasts, just I know I'm just
Isabel (35:24)
listen to podcasts that were like short segments of the news for that day just so I could get engaged with current events and get to understand a little bit more about what was going around me going on around me, sorry. And also listening to podcasts about current media was really, really useful 'cause podcasts don't just give you the facts, they also
Isabel (35:47)
give you the opinions of other people about certain things. And I think coming on from what we were talking about before, using lots of different people and on top of that, lots of different opinions is important because you get to understand where different people are coming from. And oftentimes that's a big question that comes up in interviews. I know I practiced it a lot during prep, which is like, what do you do when there's differing opinions? And so when you go into it having that prep,
Isabel (36:14)
And knowing that other people in the world had have differing opinions about things going on currently, you can use that and pull that into what you're going to talk about, which is really useful. So yeah, starting early. I think second thing would be just find the thing that you can be confident in. Whether that be something really small, I know for me it was that
Isabel (36:42)
Everyone I'd worked with had said my delivery for a lot of the things I was doing was really, really good. And I I stuck with that and I went, if there's one thing I know I'm doing well, it's that. And if I mess up on a question, at least I know that I delivered it well and hopefully that can carry through for the question. And I know some other people that it wasn't necessarily that.
Isabel (37:11)
Being their big card. It was maybe they did debating, or maybe they won some championship for something, and that was their big thing that they could pull out and use as their confidence to back them. But I know that the first time I went in, I didn't have that little bit of confidence or the thing that I knew that I was doing well. And getting that and finding that.
Isabel (37:39)
little thing that sets you apart or that little bit that can give you confidence going through it is really important. So whether you get that from a tutor, whether you get that from a family member who gives you feedback, ask around, ask people what do you think is my thing that I can use to help me through it.
Brooke Bullock (38:01)
Yeah, a hundred percent. What a beautiful question to ask people around you is like, what do you think sets me apart?
Isabel (38:06)
Yeah.
Brooke Bullock (38:07)
and you'll get very honest answers and you'll recognise this
Isabel (38:09)
Exactly.
Brooke Bullock (38:09)
theme and you think, I didn't even know that was the thing that sets me apart. And then you start
Isabel (38:13)
Yeah.
Brooke Bullock (38:14)
to believe them because these are people who have no reason to lie to you. They're people that you trust
Isabel (38:19)
Exactly.
Brooke Bullock (38:20)
that are going to be honest with you. So
Brooke Bullock (38:21)
Ask them what your best cards are and they'll tell you. and another great question actually is to ask people around you, like, how do you think I'm going to present in an interview? Because I think there's really
Isabel (38:30)
Exactly.
Brooke Bullock (38:31)
good insight from again people around you that you trust that in they say, you seem a bit bubbly or a bit flat or a bit monotone or really great or your delivery is excellent, and you start to get insights into what you need to work on. well, Isabel, I loved
Isabel (38:42)
Mm-hmm. Or even they pick up on the bad things.
Brooke Bullock (38:46)
my Q.
Brooke Bullock (38:48)
Exactly. They get they mirror that back to you so that you understand what you need to work on a hundred
Isabel (38:51)
Yeah. Yeah.
Brooke Bullock (38:53)
percent. Well, Isabel, I loved working with you to prepare for your medical school interview. I think you smash it out of the ballpark. and I'm so surprised interview one and two were not successful for you, but I do also believe
Isabel (39:05)
He
Brooke Bullock (39:06)
that the universe looks after us and gets us exactly where they're meant to be, which for you is at Macquarie.
Brooke Bullock (39:13)
you know, at Macquarie University studying medicine and you should be so proud of yourself as I know that your mum and all the other people around you are including me, your little cheer cheerleader in the corner, cheering you on.
Isabel (39:23)
Thank you.
Brooke Bullock (39:24)
I can't wait to continue to see where your career goes and where you flourish to and maybe a little bit of interview prep along the way as well. But
Brooke Bullock (39:33)
Thank you so much for your time and being on this podcast. I can only imagine somebody about to sit their first interview, second, third, fourth interview for medical school, listening to this and taking so many pearls from you. So thank you for being so generous with your advice as well. I've loved chatting with you today.
Isabel (39:51)
No, thank you so much for having me. I've loved the opportunity and I'm really, really looking forward to the fact that maybe someone will get something out of it,
Brooke Bullock (40:00)
Of course they
Brooke Bullock (40:00)
will.
