Brooke Bullock (00:05)
Hello and welcome to the Interview Insider, the podcast that offers space to dig a little deeper into healthcare recruitment and helps you to perform when the pressure is on. I'd like to begin by acknowledging the traditional custodians on the land on which this podcast is recorded, and pay my respect to elders past, present, and emerging. I'm your host, Brooke Bullock, an interview coach, communication nerd, and lover of a recruitment analogy.
Brooke Bullock (00:31)
And for the last decade, I've been so fortunate to work with doctors, nurses, and allied health professionals to help them succeed in high-stakes interviews. Each episode, I'll speak with experts to unpack the real factors behind interview success. So if you're preparing for your next big opportunity and want to perform at your best, you are in the right place.
Brooke Bullock (00:55)
Welcome back to the Interview Insider. Today I'm joined by Dr. Anthony Tran, a first year radiology trainee working at Austin Health in Melbourne. Anthony and I connected last year when he was preparing for his radiology training program selection interview. And it's been great touching base recently to see how life on the other side of training program selection is now that Anthony is three months into training.
Brooke Bullock (01:19)
Outside of work, Anthony is a diehard Essendon supporter and enjoys catching up with his friends through interests of running and movies. He's also a longstanding youth group leader at a Vietnamese youth group. So today we have the opportunity to reflect back on what Anthony went through to get onto radiology training, including not only preparing for his written application, but also the interview. Anthony, thank you so much for spending time with me to chat on the Interview Insider.
Anthony (01:45)
No worries at all, thank you for having me.
Brooke Bullock (01:47)
thought we would start with can you tell me what was the most memorable thing about your interview for radiology training now that you reflect back on it?
Anthony (01:54)
think the most memorable thing about the interview itself was the format. So to set the picture, it was a panel interview and there was eight directors of training on one side of the room and then myself on the other side of the room. And on top of that, there was a camera on the corner of the room recording me as well. So it was quite intimidating, but to be honest, I found the experience quite enjoyable. Everyone was very lovely trying to make me
Anthony (02:24)
feel as calm as possible. I essentially walked out thinking, that was such a great, great experience.
Brooke Bullock (02:30)
It's so good. I mean, of all of the training program interviews, I actually think the radiology is the one with the biggest panels. being eight to one could feel extremely intimidating. But keeping in mind these are really nice people that really want you to do well. And probably on the day of thinking back to when they had to sit in a similar seat and how nerve wracking that was. So I hope that.
Brooke Bullock (02:54)
on walking into an interview or joining online for those who join online. What you receive is warm smiles and nods and encouragement. And it's a nice way to frame
Anthony (03:01)
Mm.
Brooke Bullock (03:02)
it that the panel just does want you to do a great job. They want to know the skills and experiences that you've got to offer. And they're there to hear it.
Brooke Bullock (03:09)
you nailed it. You got on. So what did you do to prepare for your interview? And what is it that you think worked well?
Anthony (03:16)
So I think having a plan and preparing well is key for how you do for the interview. So I guess in my situation, I knew the dates for the interview. So essentially maybe two months beforehand, started to think about what I could do to prepare. So collating resources, asking around for past interview questions, looking through Reddit forums.
Anthony (03:43)
I found some books online as well that were quite helpful. So thinking about the interview, reading through example questions and answers. And then about six weeks out, I started to practice with some colleagues and it wasn't every day, was just every few days here and there just to get that going. And then about a month out, I started to, like now that I had...
Anthony (04:07)
practiced a bit, could see some weaknesses in my responses and definitely knew that I had a lot to improve on. So I decided to seek out some interview coaching programs and found your program book and then started working with you. And I think the most, I guess, tips and advice you gave me was with my structuring of my responses. So everyone knows about camp and star and spies for interview responses, but you had your own
Anthony (04:37)
take on it and really worked for me. So thank you for that. I guess going on from there, it was maybe two to three weeks out practicing every day or so, maybe an hour just with my friends, my colleagues and yeah, it ended up working out okay.
Brooke Bullock (04:54)
Yeah, it sure did for you. Well done. And I think we might have done two or three sessions together in that month in the lead up to your interview, which is nice for people to know just what it actually looks like when you work with somebody. Can I ask a couple of questions within that?
Anthony (05:07)
Mm.
Brooke Bullock (05:07)
So the people that you were practicing with at work, were these people who also were applying for radiology training? And was that tough because you're kind of your friends and colleagues, but you're also competition?
Anthony (05:21)
Yeah, so a few of them were other applicants and I guess the good thing is that I was like genuinely good friends with them. So we all wanted the best for each other. We were helping each other out as much as we could sharing resources and we knew that the more we'd put in, the more we'd get out of it. So that was great. I was also practicing with current radiology registrars.
Anthony (05:48)
those who had already gotten onto the program who could give me, I guess, real world advice and experience given that they'd done the interview as well. So yeah, it was trying to practice with as many people from different areas as possible.
Brooke Bullock (06:05)
Yeah, that's great. And I think that it is a pay it forward system. So this year it's your turn. You've got to pay it forward and help all those people who are prying for radiology
Anthony (06:12)
Mmm.
Brooke Bullock (06:13)
training, which I'm sure you will. But people really are around you and wanting to support you. leaning into that. I always hazard a warning just in those few weeks before the interview, sometimes it is good to pull your circle back a little bit. You don't want to be practicing every day with somebody new and getting potentially different and subjective advice because
Brooke Bullock (06:31)
this whole process is subjective. But if one consultant is telling you to do
Anthony (06:35)
Mm.
Brooke Bullock (06:35)
something and one consultant is telling you to do something completely different, that can be a little bit tricky in your head space, just especially in those last few
Anthony (06:42)
Hmm.
Brooke Bullock (06:43)
weeks. being selected onto a training program, it's really tough. It's very competitive. And I think
Brooke Bullock (06:48)
There's really two things that make it happen. So one is, your resume, your track record, the things you've done, your skills and experience. But the second is your communication skills on interview day. And, maybe they're equally important, but I'd love to hear about what you think. How important do you think the communication skills are versus that track record?
Anthony (07:06)
Yeah, so if I speak about radiology specifically, it's getting very competitive to not only get an interview, but get onto the training program itself. for myself, I think my early interest in the program really set me out from all of the other applicants because I knew I wanted to do radiology from medical school. everything I had leading up to the interview on my CV.
Anthony (07:34)
in terms of, I guess, a radiology rotation, doing research, going to conferences, presenting conferences, the courses that I'd done, everything was geared towards radiology training. not many applicants could essentially sell themselves that way. So I think that was something that worked well in my favor. And it's not to say that you can't get onto the radiology if you didn't know you wanted to do it in medical school, but I thought that helped me set
Anthony (08:03)
myself out so yeah, everyone knows you have to do research and courses and get experience so how you get that done, it'll work in your way. In terms of communication, I think once you get an interview offer, it's essentially vital, integral to whether you get on because the way that I looked at it, the way that consultants told me was that,
Anthony (08:31)
guess the interview is a way for the consultants, the directors of training to figure out whether they could tolerate you in a room with them for nine hours in a day, because that's essentially how radiology works. in a reporting room directly with a consultant. So if you're someone who they couldn't really
Brooke Bullock (08:48)
You
Anthony (08:49)
get along with, or couldn't tolerate for an extended period of time, that wouldn't really work in your favor. So I guess, practicing with your colleagues, trying to remain calm, making sure that your responses are
Anthony (09:01)
guess natural and not too rehearsed is very, very important. And then I think what I tried to do was try to show a bit of my personality during the interview as well.
Anthony (09:14)
I guess, trying to crack a few jokes here and there and just make everything less, I guess, serious as it could feel, intimidating as it could feel in the moment.
Brooke Bullock (09:24)
Hmm, that's really nice. And I think it is hard to, we're telling you, have to say, you have to get all this content across and you have to use these frameworks. And here's 25 extra techniques that you can use in the interview. But actually, what I continue to come back to is you need to show them who you are as a person, authentically be yourself. And we often don't want
Brooke Bullock (09:46)
the frameworks and the techniques in your way. want them kind of in your right now. I have my hand in front of my face because sometimes those things can get in the way and feel quite clunky. But practicing those things to a point where they become a helpful cognitive aid that's almost sitting behind you rather than in your way. Because yeah, especially in this era of artificial intelligence, I think the most important thing that you can be is yourself in the interview.
Brooke Bullock (10:11)
But also, showing that you're humble, that you're easy to be around, that you're not too cocky is also really important. So just thinking about how you might come across.
Brooke Bullock (10:19)
I often do with people is I ask them to ask 3D trusted friends or colleagues in their interview prep, so people around them, even their partner, for example, how do those people think you might come across in an interview?
Brooke Bullock (10:31)
I don't know if you did that activity, but how do you think he would come across in an interview? Or how do you think your friends would say that you might come across in an interview, Anthony?
Anthony (10:39)
Well, my girlfriend always says that my temperament is something that she thinks is a strength of mine. So I'd like to say that I'd come across quite calm and considered. that hopefully would have voted well for me. yeah, I guess I'd like to say I would seem quite approachable for most. And yeah, again, I'm sure that that would have helped as well.
Brooke Bullock (11:00)
Yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah.
Brooke Bullock (11:04)
I agree, you're extremely personable. I know we were able to connect really easily just chatting online for those times that we did interview coaching sessions. But, if you're not like that, if that isn't your strength, like it is for Anthony, just thinking about what it is that you can work on. So if you come across really serious, how can we reduce that? Or if you come across really bubbly and silly, probably you don't want to come across that way too much in an interview. So being authentically yourself, but also
Brooke Bullock (11:27)
not being an outlier
Brooke Bullock (11:28)
When I think about somebody's preparation, I think there's two ways to prepare for an interview. One is what I call intentional preparation, where you're sitting at the computer, writing out your answers, recording yourself, watching it back.
Brooke Bullock (11:39)
looking on the college website, thinking about how you can add things into your answers. And that's kind of the hard prep that's on your own. You need to be really motivated.
Anthony (11:49)
Mm.
Brooke Bullock (11:50)
And the other type of prep that you've talked about throughout our conversation today is prepping with other people, which is also intentional, but perhaps easier to gain the practicing with other people. What ratio did you do of both? And do you think both of those were important for you?
Anthony (12:04)
Yeah, I guess it really depends on the person themselves. But for me, I did a lot of the intentional preparation early on. So that was when I mentioned the two months out from the interview itself, I spent a lot of time going through forums, reading books, looking for questions. So I had an idea on what were some good, well structured responses. And then after I had a good idea about that, it was
Anthony (12:32)
practicing with my colleagues so could put it to practice and then see what my deficiencies were, see what my weaknesses were and then I could go back to the drawing board, recording myself, seeing how I was going time-wise with my responses, whether I was babbling on, making sure I was a bit more concise. So in terms of the percentage, I'd say early on it was a lot of intentional work and then...
Brooke Bullock (12:55)
Mmm.
Anthony (12:56)
closer to the interview itself, it probably leaned more so towards practicing with other people because that was where I could put myself under pressure and what I'd practiced to work.
Brooke Bullock (13:06)
Yeah, as radiology is known for not only asking motivating questions about you and behavioral questions where you get to share examples, ethical questions often put to you as a scenario where you get to talk about how you would handle that scenario, like a struggling doctor or an intoxicated colleague. But radiology is known to have some clinical focus as well, like they give you an image and ask you to interpret it.
Brooke Bullock (13:32)
So don't want you
Brooke Bullock (13:32)
to talk any too specifically about what you were asked, of course, I would hate to put you in that position. But how did you tackle those clinical questions and how did you tackle preparing for those?
Anthony (13:41)
I did prepare for these types of questions because I did hear that previous years they have asked these types of questions. let's say they show you an X-ray and ask you what the clinical finding is or what you would do in this situation as a radiology registrar. So in preparation, I...
Anthony (14:01)
figured out that it's not really about getting the answer right in terms of the content. So I didn't go out of my way to prepare for all the different conditions that you can see on a chess X-ray or on a slice of a CT image, but it was more so just having a very structured way of thinking and a good way to communicate that so that I could show the directors of training that I...
Anthony (14:27)
was able to, calmly think my way through a situation, even if I didn't know what I was seeing, I could at least explain it and then show them that I'm willing to escalate to a senior or consultant to ask for help. And I think that's the most important thing with these questions. They just wanna see a glimpse of your critical thinking skills, how you communicate yourself and your ability to escalate. Because in reality, as a first year, you're always going to be with a senior
Anthony (14:54)
I guess that's how I kind of looked at these types of questions in terms of image interpretation. I guess for the other clinical questions where they might throw in an ethical scenario with a clinical situation,
Brooke Bullock (15:04)
Mm.
Anthony (15:05)
again, going back on those structured templates, your style, your spies, all of that to lean on was very
Anthony (15:14)
helpful.
Brooke Bullock (15:15)
Yeah, that's excellent. And I like with the clinical, straight clinical questions, especially for example, image interpretation, I think it's really the most important thing is that you talk through your approach, as you've said, something that I'll often say to people is,
Brooke Bullock (15:28)
you almost want to talk through it as if you've got a medical student with you. So think about how you would talk through at the start I'm looking at this entire X-ray, now I'm looking at the white bits versus the black bits. And of course you're going to be more specific than that. I am not in radiology, but you know, now I'm looking at this, now I'm looking at the top left corner for some reason, and this is what I can see. So talking them through each of your steps. So walking into a radiology interview, I would suggest that you think about what the key types of images are and you have that structured approach, but that...
Brooke Bullock (15:56)
idea of talking to them, not talking to them like they're a student, talking through your process like you would with
Anthony (16:02)
Mm.
Brooke Bullock (16:02)
a student is helpful. Yeah, that's excellent. And then the second point I really like was about those, there's often ethical questions that are a little bit clinical with something clinical going on, but also an ethical thing. And I think that it's important for candidates to talk about.
Brooke Bullock (16:16)
both of those things. So do your clinical flex, talk about, what you need to do clinically, but also signpost the non-clinical thing that's going on, like the angry partner or the ED registrar who's demanding the report is written straight away
Anthony (16:29)
So I'm from Victoria. They had the interview at the Royal College of Surgeons near Parliament Station. yeah, essentially we were registered in. We walked into a briefing room and I think I was in there for about 15 minutes and could somewhat hear what was going outside in the interview room. So it was a good time to meditate and
Anthony (16:53)
try and myself down as much as possible. And then one of the directors of training came through, she was lovely, had a big smile on her face. And when I saw her, like, okay, it's gonna be fine. Walked
Brooke Bullock (17:05)
Mm.
Anthony (17:05)
in with her and then saw the other seven in the room and sat down and got started.
Brooke Bullock (17:11)
they probably sent the nicest one out to you actually. Usually the nicest person is the one that goes to get the person to bring them in to
Anthony (17:15)
Yeah.
Brooke Bullock (17:17)
make them feel warm and nurtured. And a technical question actually, and I think I know the answer, but did you shake their hands? I get often asked this for people who are going to face to face
Anthony (17:28)
So, from what I remember, I had the intention to do so, but they very quickly, and I think because there was eight of them, when I kind of leaned in to do it, they were like, don't worry about trying to shake our hands because there were so many of them and I'm sure they've got like 50 or 60 applicants coming through, they probably just thought that they'd just mentioned that, yeah, don't worry about it at the start. So we didn't have to do that formality here.
Brooke Bullock (17:52)
Agree. Yes. Yeah. And usually
Brooke Bullock (17:57)
my advice with
Anthony (17:57)
Hmm.
Brooke Bullock (17:57)
face face interviews is like take their lead. They're going to lead you in. You you need to be
Anthony (18:02)
Hmm.
Brooke Bullock (18:03)
really warm. Thank you for having me. But generally, I think there is a very low chance that they actually want to shake your hand for efficiency. Also for germs. I mean, we are post-COVID. Nobody wants to touch each other around here. So what I would do is walk in really
Anthony (18:15)
Exactly, yeah.
Brooke Bullock (18:16)
warmly, look at the person who's asked you to enter the room and they're likely going to be pointing to a seat.
Brooke Bullock (18:21)
but even just opening up your hands in the wave of like, thank you so much for being here. All right, well, this has just been such a helpful conversation for me and hopefully for listeners, especially those applying for radiology. But I think a lot of learnings for people just about prepping in general for any training program interview or any interview, not only doctors, I work with nurses and allied health professionals as well. And there's been lots of great learnings from you. So I do always have a final question.
Brooke Bullock (18:46)
which is if you could give one piece of advice to a doctor or a healthcare professional who's applying for a high stakes position, what would it be, Anthony?
Anthony (18:55)
think my piece of advice would be that it's really important to have a sound understanding of what you're actually applying for. So what does the position entail in terms of the job description or the responsibilities or the hours? You really want to have a sound understanding before you even walk into the interview room because the interview panel will be able to see that in the way that you answer their questions, in the way that you ask your own questions.
Anthony (19:20)
Not only is important to do well in the interview, but also it's important for yourself because you can essentially figure out whether the role is right for you, whether you're actually applying for something that you truly want to do, because that will also show you the responses in terms of how authentic, how genuine, how passionate you are about how you answer the questions. And I guess in terms of figuring out whether the job is right for you, it's about talking to people who are already in that job.
Anthony (19:47)
or who have already done that job because they can give you a real world answer to your questions and potentially give you some previous interview questions as well and maybe do some interview practice with you. So yeah, I think that's the main piece of advice
Brooke Bullock (20:01)
Yeah, it's great advice. And I would say when I'm working with people across all streams, all specialties, training program, lower, higher fellowship consultant, all the roles, allied health nursing, I think nine out of 10 people know what was asked in the previous interview. So whether it was the interview last year or a previous interview a couple of years ago or six months ago, usually people are armed with that. So my advice is don't be that one out of 10.
Brooke Bullock (20:28)
I think it's really important to ask those questions and we've got to course abide by the rules of the college. When you're a training program applicant, you don't walk out of the room the next day and tell everyone, but those question banks are around and it's an unfair disadvantage to not have that insight. So don't be afraid to ask whilst also respecting people's decision to
Anthony (20:50)
Yeah.
Brooke Bullock (20:50)
share or not share.
Anthony (20:51)
And just to add on to that, because most of the applicants, or not most, but a lot of the applicants may know what questions have been asked in the past, I'd say it's really easy to see for the panel, whether you've rehearsed the answers too well and seem robotic, and hence why being natural
Anthony (21:09)
answering very genuinely is so important because I feel like you just stand out like a sore thumb if you don't.
Brooke Bullock (21:16)
Yeah. And we want to practice the questions to a point where they're clunky, but then practice more to a point where they're natural. And unfortunately, you've got to go through that messy middle
Anthony (21:24)
Hmm.
Brooke Bullock (21:25)
to get to the point where you can still nail
Anthony (21:27)
Hmm.
Brooke Bullock (21:27)
the points that you know that you need to nail and use the techniques and frameworks, but in a way that is really authentically you. So if you're currently preparing for an interview and you feel like you're in that messy middle, it doesn't really feel like you,
Brooke Bullock (21:40)
you're just not there yet, you're not quite ready yet and keep working towards that. that's that usually those final week or two is like, how can I make sure that I'm bringing my own self into these questions? What are the Anthony isms that make me sound like me and the way that I speak? So yes, beautiful
Anthony (21:54)
Hmm.
Brooke Bullock (21:54)
final piece of advice. Thank you. Well, Anthony, congratulations. You've done you did such a great job last year. And as we were talking before we hit record today.
Brooke Bullock (22:03)
You're now on your career trajectory. you know what you're going to be when you grow up and you're, three months into that process, sitting exams and living the life as a radiology registrar. So you should really be proud of yourself that your entire career up until this point has now led to this you're definitely on your way. So it's so nice to see you today and hear how everything's going. And thank you
Brooke Bullock (22:23)
for taking your precious time to share with other people who
Brooke Bullock (22:27)
in probably positions that you were last year. Thank you.
Anthony (22:32)
Thank you so much.
ending and disclaimer (22:37)
Thank you so much for joining me on the Interview Insider. Please remember that recruitment is a sensitive and subjective space. These conversations are intended to spark reflection, but keep in mind there is no one size fits all answer to recruitment. Importantly, the views expressed in this podcast are our own and don't represent any employer or affiliated organizations of either myself or my guests. If you've found this conversation has been helpful,
ending and disclaimer (23:07)
Please feel free to share it with a colleague or anyone preparing for their next big interview. And if you'd like more support, resources, or to work with me and my team directly, you can find everything on my website or connect with me on social media. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so that you don't miss what's coming up next. But until next time, good luck with your next challenge and keep showing up and showing them what you're made of.
